Posted by Jeff Downs on July 08, 2002 at 16:49:22:
In Reply to: End of discussion posted by MH on July 08, 2002 at 15:17:01:
> With this comment, YOU have now hit the nail on the head as far as what it means to be a Christian.
> You do NOT need a book (which was written by man) to tell you what is good and what is bad - you need only follow those instincts originating from both your head and heart to know where right and wrong diverge.
> Thanks for the debate.
You welcome for the debate. I certainly enjoy mixing it up. But, let me leave you
with the fact that it is my instinct that we should torture litte children for the fun of it!!!!
This is good to me.
Now, of course, I'm not being serious. Actually, I'm showing the sillyness of the position you mention
above - That goodness is determined by what one personally believes is good or bad. This is a hideous (sorry for the strong language)
position to hold. If one would follow this position (relativism) to its logical conclusions, you could not disagree
with someone if they DID say that torturing children for fun was meaningful, enjoyable and good to them.
When you use the word good and bad, you are assuming or presupposing a universal goodness or badness (you need to account for this). But, this would not follwing with the rest of your viewpoint that, "good and what is bad - you need only follow those instincts originating from both your head and heart to know where right and wrong diverge."
Your position is completly refuted in the book, Relativism: Feet Firmly Planted in Mid-Air. Francis Beckwith, Gregory Koukl (Baker, 1998; ISBN#:
0-8010-5806-6). What a great title!!!
I'm going to type out a quote from the book. It is long, but its worth the read (sorry if any typos):
=====QUOTE=====
Even more sobering is how American responded when art went on trial in a Cincinnati courthouse. At issue was an exhibit in the Contemporary Art Center of the work of Robert Mapplethorpe, a talented photographer who had distinguished himself with, among other things, still-life photography of flowers. The photographs on display included the following: a picture of a ten-year-old girl sitting in a chair with her knees up and genitals exposed; a photograph of a man who was naked except for cowboy boots, bent over with a bull-whip in his anus; and a shot of one man expelling a stream of urine into the mouth of another.
The museum was charged with exhibiting pornography. During the trial, a curator of another museum who testified on behalf of the Mapplethorpe exhibit was asked if the urination picture was art.
Yes, she said.
Is it fine art?
Yes.
Why?
Because of the composition and the lighting."
Each photograph was acquitted of the charge of pornography and judged as fine art, after which social commentator and radio talkshow host Dennis Prager observed, "Ladies and gentlemen, if some of the leading artists in the civilization see a man urinating in another man's mouth and see composition and lighting and do not see their civilization being pissed upon, we are in trouble....It is possible that some societies have declined as rapidly as has America since the 60's, but I am not aware of any."
=====END QUOTE=====
This is what your view turns out to be. Moral Relativism. Which in the end is the view that morality is = to preferences. I like hard candy, you like soft. Of course good and bad (morality) are certainly in totally different catagory.
Also regarding your view that the Bible is a human book. You are certainly mistaken. I see you dropped you Catholic belief here. Of course you are allowed your own opinion on the issue,
but when the facts are not on your side, I suggest you do a little more research:
The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible. Benjamin B. Warfield (Presbyterian & Reformed, 1948;
ISBN#: 0-8755-2527-X).
The Trustworthiness of God : Perspectives on the Nature of Scripture. Eds. Paul Helm & Carl R.
Trueman (Eerdmans, 2002; ISBN#: 0-8028-4951-2).
The Old Testament Documents: Are They Reliable & Relevant?. Walter C. Kaiser Jr. (InterVarsity Press,
2001; ISBN#: 0-8308-1075-4).
The Historical Reliability of the Gospels. Craig Blomberg (InterVarsity Press, 1987; ISBN#:
0-8778-4992-7).
And of course the Bible itself claims to be the Word from God, not men. What would we think it a book
didn't claim this. We would have no reason to believe it. The Bible does claim it is so and the facts support it.
For further resources (books, articles, tapes, etc...) check out our Resource Index on our Web site (under Bibliology).
In Christ,
Jeff Downs