Posted by bmac on May 17, 2007 at 13:48:32 (EST):
In Reply to: Re: Nice try Mike..ha, ha posted by More Than Tradition...Common Sense on May 16, 2007 at 22:19:53 (EST):
: : : : : : : : : : : I was just watching channel 23. It looks like Solak got around 70% of the votes.
: : : : : : : : : : : It seems that there aren't quite as many cosolidationists as some would like to have us think.
: : : : : : : : : : : I'd be willing to bet that if Choncek and Rearic had any competition we would have seen a similar response in those races as well.
: : : : : : : : : : Choncek and Rearic are from regions that are NOT afraid of change and progress, so you wouldn't see a similar response in those races.
: : : : : : : : : : Peace.
: : : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : : It's not about "change" or "progress". It's about not spending more money and raising our already ridiculous taxes.
: : : : : : : : : It's also not about "region". The only reason Choncek and Rearic won in their "region" is because nobody else ran.
: : : : : : : : Ford City is a dying town, the coucil is in turmoil. Get a few consolidation seats here and there soon you have a majority and Solak's vote means nothing.
: : : : : : : Whats FC council have to do with it?
: : : : : : I Say let Ford City keep their delapidated building they love so much. Minimal rennovations as they want. The school already is not producing scholars as the vote shows.
: : : : : Why do you say that?
: : : : : Apparently you feel that just because the people didn't vote the way YOU feel they should have they are not "scholars".
: : : : : Typical of the consolidationist point of view..."Anybody who disagrees with me is stupid."
: : : : : But okay, let's do what you are saying...let FC renovate. In that case there is absolutely no reason to be building a new school for Kittanning and Elderton. After all, Elderton only has a few kids and Kittanning has plenty of room.
: : : : : This actually does sound good, because then we could shit-can however many teachers and other workers that are employed at Elderton which would offset the transportation costs of bringing the kids all the way into KHS.
: : : : : You make a very good point.
: : : : : Thanks Dodge!
: : : : Did not assume they were not scholary because of your vote, but by their insistance of keeping a 100 year old delapidated building. By leaving their children fall behind in studies. Not one Ford City student went to the pjas contest. that is shamefull. a opportunity for a student to show what they have learned. Apparently as long as you have football everything is cool. so yes i say let your students get left behind. I don't want that for my kids. shit can elderton and send those kids packing to West Shamokin. Upgrade classes and opportunities for the kids who want to learn. we will let the kids who want to progress go these schools. The future ditch diggers can go to Ford city since you guys seem to be O.K. with the lack of learning potential at yor 100 year old school.
: : : The age of a building has absolutely nothing to do with what caliber of students it turns out. That my friend, is the fault of poor instruction by inept teachers.
: : : How old are the buildings at the Ivy League colleges?
: : Traditions die hard and most people in general are resistant to change - it tends to make us humans a little uncomfortable when we are faced with the unfamiliar. It's a little unfair then to label Ford City people as being "afraid of change," as if they are the only ones.
: : Maybe people have fond memories of school at Ford City and want their kids to have the same. Unfortunately we live in an area that seems to be even slower at being forward thinking and progressive than most. It shows in Kittanning and Worthington and Elderton and Ford City and Leechburg and Vandergrift and Apollo and any other small western Pa. town. We always liked to think of our towns as nice places to raise kids and live out a peaceful family life - who wants to let go of that?
: : I'm not saying that that is how it should remain, only that it is a hard fight to win when you try to convince small town people around here to give up traditions and ways of thinking that have been imbedded here for 100 years. Putting them down and insulting them is probably not the most effective way of trying to get them to see the light. Maybe some honest, thoughtful, fair, and organized meetings with local citizens minus all the political banter might get the process started? Maybe not. It might be worth a try and what everyone is doing now doesn't seem to be working to well.
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: I am not trying to be disrespectful and to stir an argument, but I feel that your response needed addressed.
: First, I do not think the debate over the schools revolves solely around tradition. That seems to how some want to sway the debate, but it has alot to do with costs to the taxpayers. Your past comments centered on making the area a better place. I can gree with that, but part of that change is not necessarily moving away from our beliefs to do things in a cost-efficent manner. Yes, we have high taxes now, but building a new school is going to send the taxes through the roof. Using facts, we could just look at the costs pertaining to the West Hills campus.
: I think it is not the tradition aspect we should be keying on in looking toward the futre, instead, we should be looking at things as "needs" compared to "wants." People have this pie-in-the-sky attitude that building a new high school is going to bring jobs to the area. This is false, and it has been challenged on the message board and in the news for somebody to provide proof that a new high school will attract new business. It does not happen that way. Do you think a business is going to come into an economically-deprived area where the school taxes are goign through the roof with nothing to show for it?
: To address the issue of traditions, which in my mind only plays in part of the reason in the schools debate, what is so wrong with traditions if they are not a hurdle in the way of progress? Why have we become so abrasive to keeping traditions or having pride in a school or in a community? Isn't this what you are speaking about on here in your quest to overcome the apathy in the communities? I see more activism surrounding the school issues than I see on most other issues. So, instead of trying to destroy or eliminate that spark in the community, why not use it to our advantage? It could motivate people to become more active in their communities, correct? You rip that out of Kittanning or Ford City then you are eliminating another item that can be used to get the hearts of these communities beating, again. This could be the trigger point.
: Community schools are not a thing of the past. If you read some of the newest and most "modern" studies, the smaller school concept is now proven to be better for academics. Why are the test scores so low? Well, I do not think it has that much, if anything, to do with the building. You can teach most of the classes dealing with mathematics, reading, and even science in shed if it came to it. Instead, we should be looking at the process of the children are getting educated. How about using some of the money that they want to use on new buildings for after-school tutoring or mentor-learing programs after school? I think this would help a child alot more than a new building. There are problems at home that these kids have to overcome. Putting them on a bus and sending them to a new school building is not really going to change anything.
: So, I think you may have discovered something to motivate communities, now it will need to be determined how to use this motivation to initate progressive change in the communities. The activism is high on this subject so why not use it as a positive instead of trying to cut it out of the equation?
: Sorry if I appeared to be taking a stance for consolidation. After rereading my post I can see how it could be taken that way. In fact though, I was only trying to say that attacking and insulting people is not a real good way to start anything that you would like to see resolved. Truthfully, I'm not at all sure where I stand on the issue because there has been too much political posturing and arguing. I know that it has been studdied, I know that you can make statistics say whatever you want them to say.
The only reason I put focus on the tradition aspect was because the person who posted was saying that Ford City people are afraid of change - as if only the people from Ford City were stopping "progress" because they want to hold onto something that they have grown to love and take pride in.
I think we have to look at all the issues at hand and do so fairly. Tradition, money, and the good of the children in regards to the quality of the education are all part of the puzzle. The back stabbing and name calling and insults only muddy the water further and good solutions become harder to find because people are all defensive and looking for a fight rather than looking for the best possible answer.