Posted by MH on January 31, 2002 at 08:39:23:
In Reply to: Re: RV debate - Urban vs Rural posted by Dick on January 30, 2002 at 18:36:25:
Dick, et al., thank you for the intellectual debate. Please see my comments interspersed.
> > But I also agree with Dave W. Yes, he seems on the young side but he has a point in that people need to grow beyond the limitations of the small town mentality.
> Can you define what, exactly you mean here about "small town mentality?" Everything I have seen thus far could also describe every large city I have lived in also, so we need some clarification, if you please.
Case in point: Sushi. Another case in point: Ethnicism (specifically African Americans). Ask about these subjects around town and I think the majority of responses will be on the negative side, even though many of the respondents have no experience with either. "Small town mentality" equates to having a closed mind. You believe in what you believe in just because you do. You don't support evidence to support your claims, rather sloughing it off as "that's just the way it is".
>>One of the easiest ways to accomplish this is to move out of the area.
> World War II accomplished this for many many people who came home and procreated and made........US! And the communities in which we lived.
I'm not sure I follow what counterpoint you are trying to make here. Please explain.
>>Go to the big city and see how hard it is to 'survive'. I can turn the debate of survival back on Carl by asking, 'Can a rural-born person survive in a major metropolis for an extended period of time?' Without changing, that answer will more often than not be a resounding 'No!'.
> We are getting cute with our words here. Can a rural-born person survive anywhere without changing? No. Can an urban born person survive without changing? No. Change is an essential part of living.
My point exactly. And change for the better is a concept which seems to fall on deaf ears in the town. I was just making a couterpoint to Carl's original assertion. Making it in the 'big' city is a MUCH more difficult task especially for those who lack higher education and experience.
> > All small towns are being hurt by having their youngest and brightest members move out of the communities in search of better jobs, better education, etc.
> So which came first--the jobs dried up and the young people left, causing a shrinking tax base which short changed education, OR the jobs left (coal mines, Linde Air, etc.)and so the young people--many, not necessarily the best and brightest--left in search of employment? I suspect there are still many "best and brightest" in the Kittanning area, who do care and would like to move the political structure to get some new economic development going.
Ok, since we're getting into a 'chicken or egg' debate here, my view on the subject is thus. The brighter youth all leave in search of education (please do not insult my intelligence by bringing up IUP of Kittanning - a glorified high school annex). Once they leave, they are opened up to a world of possibilities, many of which are not even imagined while living in Kittanning. These possibilities lead to better opportunities out of college which 99% of the time doesn't include a move back to Kittanning (I'm not counting the 6 to 12 months following graduation when kids mooch off their parents while they decide what they want to do with their lives). The youth may come back to 'the area' but usually never settle in/around Kittanning, rather near Butler, Indiana, Pittsburgh - places with more amenities than Kittanning.
Yes, we all still like to come back to visit. Each visit brings back great memories of times past. But you can never live in the past. Many of my friends who still make Kittanning their home do just that. Those that stay never grow beyond their high school 'labels'. This is a truly sad state.
>>Seriously, look at Kittanning. I truly don't mean to offend anyone here on this list but the average age and IQ of Kittanning's general populace isn't getting any higher now, is it?
> What is the source of this comment? Prove your assertion! This is a real slap in the face for the citizens of the area.
See my point below. I would love to prove this. Maybe the citizens of the area need a good slap in the face once in awhile.
> > Kittanning, Ford City, RV and the surrounding areas need people to step up to bat for them and it doesn't seem like it's happening. What happened to the Fiber Optics plant that was slated for RIDC North?
> That's why there are elections every so often.. You don't like what's happening, get a new board or council! Very American in it's concept.
And this is why the same people keep getting re-elected year after year? Market Street is a ghost town, if you haven't noticed lately. Do you actually think there is going to be change for the better? I highly doubt it.
> > I wish the town(s) much luck in finding its/their way as I still have family there. But in reality, there isn't much worth visiting in Kittanning. Even though I have many cherished memories of my childhood, it's hard to watch the direction Kittanning has chosen to take.
> I too have many cherished memories of Kittanning AND Rural Valley (ever hear of Pina's?) and return trips to the area are great for remembering them and passing them on to my children. And I'm not sure Kittanning (however you define that in this paragraph) actually chose the direction you are so fond of pointing out. Was there a vote--Yes! Let's vote to have all industry move out of state and not get anything new here!!--? Yes I moved away--to find love and life to do something new and go where no man went before. So I was young and stupid, but I survived quite nicely thank you. That's kind of how this country got so spread out, I think. Are there problems in Kittanning? Sure. Are there problems in Pittsburgh, Duluth, St. Paul, Los Angeles, Spokane, Elderton, Jamestown...you bet. But concerned people who do in fact care about their communities large or small will act to make them better. Get the political types to run for office and throw out the old sleepy guys. Travel and get ideas and bring them home. If you hate an area so much you have nothing to offer, by all means get the heck out and help the area improve by virtue of your leaving. But don't ever insult or demean those who stay.
Please accept my apologies if I offended anyone. I wan't trying to point fingers at any one particular person but rather give my impressions on the area as a whole.
I do have a challenge for you, Dick. I would love to get the names of the students who finished in the top 10 of their graduating class at KHS from let's say 1975 to 1995. From this master list, I'd like to know who makes residence in Kittanning or its immediate area. I have no idea whether or not this can be accomplished but would be intrigued to see the results. If I were a betting man, though, I would bet the number we discover is low.
From personal recollection, I do remember many things being done (or not done) that would have changed the course for Kittanning. For one, IUP originally wanted to make Kittanning its home but the townsfolk voted against it. Now, unless you want to get your 'degree' from Kiddie U, you are FORCED to leave the area. Another was the decision to make Franklin Village Mall an 'open air' mall (which equates to shopping plaza). At the time, Kittanning could have made a push to build a real mall which would have led to many jobs (granted, most not much above minimum wage) and an attraction for the area. Now, Kittanning is left with Wal Mart and King's. (Did I mention not much above minimum wage jobs?) And yet another was a public outcry when a video arcade was opened at Franklin Village in the early 80s thus "forcing" the business under quickly. This would have given younger people SOMETHING TO DO - a point that is SORELY lacking in the Kittanning area.
Yes, other places all face their own problems. Pittsburgh is facing almost this same dilemna - losing its youth to more upcoming, attractive areas of the nation. I believe this trend will likely continue - Pittsburgh youth move to bigger cities, Kittanning youth will move to Pittsburgh and so on.
Dick, you seem to really care about the area. I truly wish you luck in helping to turn things around in Kittanning. What is needed is vision and ingenuity. Kittanning needs focus. What would cause people to want to visit the area (barring the Folk Festival)? It's a quaint town. Make that point stand out. Create bed and breakfasts. Open coffee shops and antique stores. Close Market Street to traffic. Open up a permanent street fair atmosphere. Bring in entertainment at the Riverfront Park. I could go on. But first you need to convince the people in charge that change IS in fact needed. I bet the resistance you meet is greater than you would expect.
Good luck.