Re: Draft?

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: : : : : : : : : : : : : "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended" : : : : : : : : : : : : : "Major operations" in Iraq have ended : : : : : : : : : : : : : That's symantics - Word play. No different than Clinton saying "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". Word play. Political rhetoric meant to say one thing & yet mean another in theory. All it does is make an ass out of the : : : : : : : : : : : : : politicians (and those who defend them). I mean really, how many Democrats felt sheepish after Clinton finally DID confess to sexual relations with that woman. : : : : : : : : : : : : : Regardless of who put the "mission accomplished" sign up during Bush's one press thing, someone in the Bush administration should have removed it if it was inappropriate at the time (which it was). : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : I have said it beofre and will say it again, where are all these people who think this conflict is sooo justified?? Why don't they enlist? I am sure these people have enough sons or daughters to enlist? I am not exaggerating. I see these people with the Sportsmen for Bush and all those other stickers, yet, I see themselves, or their sons and daughters in college or working. It seems the parents have not done a good job of explaining the magnitude of the threat Iraq poses. If they cannot sell it to their own or don't want to sell it to their own kids, why sould the rest of the country buy into this crap. This is no lie...I could name you at least 25 people with Bush bumperstickers who are of age and not in the military. I know I would estimate over 100 people who openly support this admininstration and think this war is comparable to WWII, yet they have sons or daughters nowhere near a military uniform. This is pretty easy understand; they talk the talk but do not want to walk the walk. I would seriously, seriously, be more open to these people and their opinions, if they would back up what they are saying. Maybe the Bushie-parents are failing our youth by not educating our youth properly on good patriotic values? The enlistment figures should be zooming upward, since we are under such a grave threat. : : : : : : : : : : : 2 things speaking. : : : : : : : : : : : First my comparison did not imply that this was like WWII. What I was comparing is the way the media supported the troops and the war effort back then but now they do not. Not just with Iraq, but with every military action we have taken since the Korean War. That was the last time the media supported a war. : : : : : : : : : : : Second, you do not have to be in the military to support the troops. Which is worse speaking? Those guys you see who are not in the military (and you have no idea why they are not, maybe they are diabetic...you don't know) who support the troops, or people like YOU who sit comfortably under the protection they provide and chastise every action they take. : : : : : : : : : : : They said in the 60's, "You're either part of the solution or part of the problem". : : : : : : : : : : : Well, these days, I feel, you are either with them or against them. : : : : : : : : : : : If you sit back here and talk down every action our military takes, you are fighting our troops the same as the insurgents are. : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : I am a vet and have all the respect int he world for our troops, and if you took a step back out of your own reality, it is very easy to speak out against the war and still support the troops. : : : : : : : : : : I would like for you to have said that to a couple of veterans who passed on over the past couple of years who were from Kittanning and the surrounding area and were also members of the Bataan Death March and other POW camps. They spoke out vehemently against some of the past conflicts. They did not speak out to hurt the military members; they spoke out for what they believed to be true. After the sacrifices they made, you would call these men unpatriotic??? Get with it. : : : : : : : : : : Here we go, again. I truly believe if our country would have taken action against the Saudis and Afghanistan, you would not see the uproar, but when you manufacture and create disinformation to go to war with a country and American lives are being, I am very thnkful to see and hear people speak up. So, if you are asking me to turn a blind eye to the whole Iraq situation, then I guess you are against me. : : : : : : : : : : When would you speak up against our government's actions? Never, no matter how unwarranted it is found to believe?? You better educate yourself on some of the things our Founding Fathers stated long ago about a governmental out of control. : : : : : : : : : Let's get this done with now...I don't give a shit if you were a vet or not. Spending a couple years in the service during peacetime doesn't make you an authority, or make you a spokesman for all servicemen past and present. What makes you think I haven't made the same argument with vets who have seen action? Do you think I HAVEN'T said this to these guys? Do you think I don't have friends and family in Iraq? The one's in Iraq now and the one's who were in Nam all agree with the points I've made. One of them was on the front page yesterday getting a purple heart...he agrees. They HATE the fact that they are over there fighting and people like you sit back here and talk down the whole effort. : : : : : : : : : It's called war. It's called morale. : : : : : : : : : Speak up all you want, as long as it's not bringing down the morale of the men you claim to be so worried about. : : : : : : : : The morale is not good from what I am hearing. Yeah, I see the respect you have have for any vets. You are right...your mentality is that you know all and they have to be wrong. At least we know your regard for those who have and are serving proudly. It does not matter if you do or don't support the Iraq conflict. The issue deals with your claims of censorship just because we are in a war. What kind of country would be living in if more people like you had that opinion? It is probably a scary thought for others reading this. You cannot say this...you cannot do that...you can only say this...and anything short of full agreement is blasphemy. I can probably find just as many that HATE it with people who are against it and that are over there or have been over there. Where does that bring us?? A free country!!!! Ding..ding..ding...if you said that, you got the right answer. : : : : : : : : This country is just not made up on war. Where is that written or whose philosophy is that? Do we sink or swim on the leadership of this country? What if we attack Australia tomorrow? No matter how ludicrous it sounds, we are going to war so we MUST agree with it under the premise of supporting the troops. There is a distinction between supporting the troops and supporting the effort, even some highly conservative military analysts, who I disagree with staunchly, have stated that clearly. Somewhere during this War On Terror things began becoming more and more intertwined. : : : : : : : : Us vs. Them : : : : : : : : Nukes vs. Biological : : : : : : : : Factual evidence vs. faulty intelligence : : : : : : : : Threat vs. Liberation : : : : : : : : Events of 09/11 vs. Saddam Hussein boogeyman : : : : : : : : All of these things at least raise some hard questions, but we are not to question anything? : : : : : : : : God bless the U.S.A. with people like this around. : : : : : : : Plus, you are telling all of us on the board that you would walk up to a veteran, be it a vet from the Bataan Death March or peacetime 2005 stating their opinion that he or she was against the war in Iraq, you would tell them they are unpatriotic or un-American??? Are they any less being an upstanding American for being against the war in Iraq? Should they have to return their medals? : : : : : : No, not ANY vets...just YOU. : : : : : : Here, I'll let you read it again. : : : : : : "I don't give a shit if you were a vet or not." : : : : : : I didn't say I didn't respect veterans. : : : : : : I said that putting in time doesn't make you a spokesman for all the vets, or that you know what is best for them. : : : : : : No, I'm not saying I "...would walk up to a veteran...", I'm saying I HAVE stated my opinion to those people (vets or whoever) Most of which agree with me. And the ones who don't, be it who it may, I tell them that you have to support the troops, regardless of what you think. Are you saying that since you don't agree with the war, you think our guys should LOSE or that our men SHOULD die?? : : : : : : Censorship...gimme a freakin' brake!!! : : : : : : So you think that the media should be able to say whatever they want then? : : : : : : No matter what effect it might have. : : : : : : How about if Dan Rather finds out that we are going to mount a surprise attack...then you think he should be able to broadcast it, regardless of how many troops will die as a direct result? : : : : : : Say what you want about "people like me", : : : : : : if the country were run by "people like you", we wouldn't have a country. : : : : : : : : : : So, you do believe that it is possible not to support the Iraq War and still support the troops, correct? If you do not agree with that, then are these people un-American or unpatriotic? : : : : : I do not want to misquote you or state something you do not say, but I believe in one of the previous threads about this topic you said that there are no options with this issue, because you cannot have one without the other. So, be it me or somebody else that feels this way, how would you classify them? You are correct it really should not matter if they are a vet ot not, so what is your opinion about people who follow the thoughts of supporting the troops and not the Iraq War? : : : : : Or, is this how you classify these people depending on the individual. If you do not like them, "love it or leave it" and if they are a decorated vet and espouse these same thoughts then it is okay? I want to hear your answer to this. Have these vets earned the right to state their opinions? Who else has "earned" the right to say these things without falling into disfavor with you? I think this interesting. You say you have said things to decorated vets (you do not have to be in a war to be decorated). What do you actually tell them? Do you say, "I do not agree with you on that issue" or do you start using the buzzwords like "love it or leave it?" Do you tell them they are unpatriotic to their face? I do not mean this in way of you starting a physical altercation with the veteran, but instead, I just want to know if you push everything they did to the side, because they have stated their opinion to you. : : : : : What is their reaction when you tell them that they are unpatriotic, if this is what you tell them? In comparison, what do you tell a non-veteran when they have the same opinion? Do you think there is a distinction between the two or should load them all up that think this way onto a boat and set them asail of of our shores? : : : : : : : : : : : : : What I'm saying is that even if you do not support the war but support the troops, you cannot protest the war effort without protesting the troops. : : : : Basically you are implying that you wan't to protest the war but not the men fighting in it. : : : : That's like protesting a punch in the face but not the guy who hit you. : : : : You seem bent on trying to twist what I say around into an insult of every veteran out there. What's with that? : : : : EVERYONE has the right to their opinion, vets or not. : : : : Trust me I'm not saying anything to you that I haven't said to a bunch of other people in person. : : : : Love it or leave it? Hardly. There alot of things about the government that I disapprove of. : : : : : : : : Actually I think a more fitting quote for the topic is "United we stand. Divided we fall." : : : : : : : : I don't want to set anyone asail. But it would be nice to see you take a long walk off a short pier. : : : : : : : : That was too easy, had to get it in. : : : : : I am not trying to twist anything. I asked questions for clarification of your past quotes. I was asking for you to clarify what you think of people who believe that there is a distinction between supporting the troops and supporting a war effort. : : : "United we stand. Divided we fall." : : : Now, that statement is laced with so much irony that I am glad you said it not me. : : : George W. Bush came into office claiming to be a "uniter not a divider." (more sound bytes) The leadership in this country has divided the public more than it has been in 40 years. : : : If we want apply your statement of unification, you better first look at the leadership of this country. Obviously, they have not done their job of bringing all the people together under one effort. : : : So yes, I agree with you. "United we stand. Divided we fall." You better start writing some letters to D.C. because somebody is ignoring something you believe in for our country to survive. : : : : See, right there is your problem. : : You try to blame every negative thing that happens on the CURRENT president. At least until a dem gets into office. Then I guess you'll think everything is A.O.K.. : : Do you honestly believe that every democrat or liberal (I know how you start to cry when I say they are one in the same) out there hasn't been TRYING to divide this nation ever since Bush got into office. : : They're all a bunch of "I'm taken my ball and goin' home!" crybabies, who if they can't have their own way, want to completely disrupt the system. Whether it be by anti-war sentiment, filibusters (which they say with a straight face were MEANT to be used they way they are using them, promised not to use them, then used one the very next time they had a chance), denying court nominations or what ever flavor-of-the-week gripe they are currently endorsing. : : How many times have you seen Bush standing in front of the camera proclaiming what an asshole some senator is? You have these guys and the Al Sharpton types who rant and rave every day of the week and you say that BUSH is the divider? : : Gimme a break! : You cannot dictate to the American people who to believe or what to believe, but it is obvious to the staunchest conservative to the most free-style liberal, that this country is divided. If you want to blame those damn liberals, but the President is the LEADER of the country, and he is responsible for uniting the people, intead he continues to divide. You are the one making this into a Left or Right issue. The bottom is that this country is divided pretty evenly. What is Bush doing to improve this situation? You say you are tired of the liberals always picking on poor Georgie, but did you ever wonder how people comprehend you with your excuses for this train wreck of an administration? : I see you have not schooled yourself on politics, yet. Things like the filibuster have been used by both parties, and I gave you three factual situations in which the GOP did the same thing. Well, I guess that went over your head. : Yes, and when we run out of people and things to blame, we revert back to those darn liberals. "We got to protect the women and children!!!" I am not going to explain myself to you for the umpteenth time about views, because you obviously live in a black-and-white world only yours is laced with paranoia that there really is this hidden war between the Left and the Right. At least the posters on this board are straight-forward and speak of their dislike for the way the country is going and blame not only the President but THE PARTY in charge of the Congress. I do not see them making excuse after excuse on how "everybody is picking on poor Georgie." Once again, where is the self-responsibility??? This is what the GOP preaches as the gospel!!! Are we not allowed to hold to them criteria as they want to hold us??? Your excuses are getting pitiful. : I do not remember Ronald Reagan dividing the country this way and there were more of those pain-in-the-butt liberals back in the 1980's. Ooops forgot, you do not know anything about that, because that is history, and you block out anything that dares challenge your current thinking or disrupt your self-indulged theories. : I do not whine or cry, but I do exit when all you have left is to resort to name-calling. That is not the spirit of a good debate, but then again, you do not know about that, either.

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