Posted by stu on July 02, 2005 at 21:09:18 (PST):
In Reply to: Re: Yeah, Eljer workers aren't getting screwed posted by Speaking Just For Me on July 02, 2005 at 15:51:19 (PST):
: : : : : : : : : Double the healthcare coverage costs
: : : : : : : : : Eliminating time and a half for overtime
: : : : : : : : : Frozen pension plans with Jacuzzi
: : : : : : : : : This is good for America, if you listen to the kool-aid drinkers (there you go, you got my phrase). Let them all suffer the consequences of the New America. We have to be competitive...let's have them work for minimum wage, no healthcare coverage, eliminate the vacations, then we can compete with the third-world countries. To heck with their families needs and their mortgages, this is part of the american Dream.
: : : : : : : : : This is what has been espoused on this board time and time, again. There are no incentives, just concessions.
: : : : : : : : : I feel proud in saying that I back the employees of Eljer 110%. If they do not want to sign onto this corporate-heavy plan, I do not blame and I won't use the worthless phrase of, "They still have a job."
: : : : : : : : : Eljer, like PPG, should be a wake-up call to everybody in this area that things are not going good for the middle class in this country. I do not care what statistics the think-tanks in Washington come up with....the Eljer employees are getting screwed BIG TIME (in the words of our Vice-President).
: : : : : : : : : I think this kind of thinking is maniacal and morally wrong, so all those moralistic wannabe's can sit and seethe on that for the moment.
: : : : : : : : No such thing as employee loyalty anymore, just corporate and stock holder greed, it is a sad day when they can take your pension.Isn't this a grand country we live in?
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : There IS a difference here. It's still WRONG, but there is a difference.
: : : : : : : While other compainies are in fact screwing their employees out of their pensions and remaining open under that management.
: : : : : : : In this case it is Jacuzzi, not Sun, who is really screwin' the guys. Jacuzzi included this pension as part of their pay package, then sold the company and kept the money. Although Sun is cutting (or trying to cut) their penssion plan out of their package, they are not the ones sitting on all the money that has been earmarked for the employees pensions for years and years. For Sun to offer the same pension plan the guys (the steelworkers union) would have to get Jacuzzi to turn over all the money into the Sun plan.
: : : : : : : If I were them, I think I would rather just make Jacuzzi give ME the money and start my own plan. Even if they do turn it over Sun could actually STILL keep the money the same way all these other thief companies do.
: : : : : : : By the way, I'm a union guy. In fact my pension is operated by the union. I'm getting screwed the same as everyone else. They cut our pension rate down. They cut our med coverages. They increased the amount of contributions needed for coverage. So don't think that just because you're in a union nobody can mess with your money.
: : : : : : : Also don't think that this all just started in the past 5 years. I was talking to one of the guys who works down there and he threw out "you can blame this all on Bush". That company has been strugglin' for a good 10 years at least and companies have been dropping pensions for at least that long also.
: : : : : : : The problem is everybody buys the cheapest product they can regardless where it was made. Even if a toilet made in China was $1 cheaper than the Union American made Eljer toilet, most people would buy the cheaper Chinese one.
: : : : : : : American companies need to start pushing the fact that their products are made here.
: : : : : : : American people need to start supporting American companies, even if it DOES cost a little more to do so.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : It all sounds good but when you only have so much money to go pay all your expenses it is only natural to try and save a buck. We all do , we have to. Are you going to pay a couple thousand more for a GM truck when you can buy a Nissan that is comparable? After all is said and done, you have to take care of yourself. no one else will.
: : : : : As a matter of fact I DO own a GM truck. I love it. I don't think a Nissan is any better at all. And it isn't any cheaper either. Take a look at that new Nissan Titan it costs way more than a my Chevy and my truck is loaded. But then again alot of Chevys are made in Canada. That's where they need to promote "made in the USA" a Honda Civic is built in Ohio yet a Chevy Aveo is made in Korea (or some other place...I can't remember for sure.
: : : : : But let's say I agree with you about a $30,000 truck. What about a $60 toilet? Home Depot cut Eljers contract over a difference of less than $1 per unit. Do you mean to say you wouldn't pay and extra $1 to support those guys down in F.C.?
: : : : : That's what those stores do. Even if they are making boo koo bucks on something that is being produced in America they will tell that company we want it cheaper or were aren't buying. So the employees suffer and suffer until the company either closes down or moves overseas.
: : : : : They just had a special on about Walmart (or Chinatown as I prefer to call it) and how this goes on with them. But it isn't JUST Walmart it is EVERY store.
: : : : : If you'll think back though. When Walmart was first getting really big their biggest selling point was how many of their products were made "right here in the good ol' U.S.A."
: : : : : Another thing was how there was "never more than 3 in a line" at the checkout.
: : : : : Now all there shit is from China and they don't even want to pay a girl to take our money. Instead they want us to check our own stuff out.
: : : : : Here's something elsethat i don't get. One of my best friends recently began a boycott on Walmart, largely due t the fact that his unuion told him to do so. (they also tell him who to vote for). However he thinks nothing of taking a Walmart ad to another store and getting the Walmart price. I believe that this is actually WORSE than shopping at Walmart. Walmart is actually getting the stuff cheaper, but since the other store doesn't bully their supplier they end up losing money on the item. So in effect they get punished for doing the right thing.
: : : :
: : : : It is now a global economy, the companies go where the labor is the cheapest and they can make the most money.The unions were good to a point but then they began to protect bad workers, sloppy work, and cause products to be high priced with their wage demands.If it isn't Walmart, it will be another company.People in other countries want what we have, cars , homes, the good life and it is becoming available to them through business locating there. We have only ourselves to blame, buy American won't change the tide now.We have to adapt like the other countries did, the days of the big plants are like the dinosaurs.
: : : First, I agree with your opinion about the union protecting bad workers. This does occur, but the unions are like anything else, people look just at the negatives, but they have done and still do a lot of good. The one thing that has been proven to be false is that the unions are what drove companies overseas. That was the big reason back in the 80's. Now, we have awakened as society and witnessed non-union work just as much as union work going overseas.
: : : Second, name me one country or nation that continued with a decent standard of living or maintained success while being a consumer-based society. It cannot and will not occur. We cannot adapt to this trend. They only way we can survive is to build up our industrial base. There is no room to "adapt." Even if you go with the premise of moving toward a technological workforce, this will not be enough to support the economy.
: : : We need to bring back the job base or we are done as a nation, plain and simple.
: :
: : This is what I'm saying. We MUST start buying American. There is no reason why this country couldn't be completely self supportive. We as citizens need to support our own and buy American. American companies need to start pushing the fact that buying American products supports American workers.As a nation we need to slow the flood of foriegn products. I would favor tariffs on imported goods so that it is not cheaper to produce goods overseas and ship them around the world back to the U.S. I'm not even saying Massive tariffs, but at least enough to level the field. In fact if we continue to go down the road we are on now, that will be the ONLY way for our country to collect enough in taxes to survive.
: I agree with your concept, but the logisitics in all of this show that we do not have much on the market, anymore, qualifying itself as "American Made." Your thoughts about the tariffs are correct, only you will be held in violation of the glabal economy if we do so.
: This whole problem is only going to get worse when CAFTA is signed. This will have a heavy impact on the agricultural economic base. We need some drastic changes, but both parties are being nursed on the breast of corporations.
: We are on the verge of an economic nightmare.
F**k global economy, we have to start looking out for #1.