Posted by Speaking Just For Me on November 30, 2004 at 17:41:28 (PST):
In Reply to: Re: Big Brother posted by Carl on November 30, 2004 at 10:25:44 (PST):
I am not going to give you word for word details on the Act, because frankly, I did not read it all, but I do not feel bad, because most of the legislation that is passed by our government is not read Congress people until after it has been passed.
But, I do not think the entire Act needs to be torn down word for word. The most controversial piece in the Act is Section 215. It has been brought up on talk-shows, news capsules, even commercials. This was the part of the Act that both the strong, right-wing conservatives and left-wing liberals came together in protest over civil liberties.
In my opinion, the 4th amendment went out the window with this section. No warrant, no probable cause, no notice to conduct the investigation. Those involved in the investigation are not to release the information to anybody or they could be under penalty of law.
The other part of this expansive section deals with the Freedom of the First Amendment being violated. Not violated in terms of prohibiting Free Speech, but instead, a person could be investigated for executing that right. Sure, this could be used to fight terrorism, but like I said in a na earlier post, the same could hold true for somebody that opposes what is written or said on a personal level or political level. There is no distinction as to what establishes a benchmark to warrant an investigation.
Remember the old saying, if you are worried about getting caught don't do anything bad. Well, in this case, you may not have done anything wrong and the new laws would allow for you to be investigated without ever even knowing you were investigated!!
: : : : : : I see where Big Brother is now spying on chatroom conversations, I wonder what else they are checking ( Phone and cell phone conversations?? )you wonder just how free are we? Of course this is all done under the Patriot Act and supposedly to root out terrorists, I think are not as free as we think.
: : : : : If a person make treasonous statements, perhaps they should be watched. At the beginning of US History, King George wanted to tax colonists to pay for his war against the French, not only here but elsewhere in the world. Win-lose is not good, not now and not ever.
: : : : : Terrorists have an agenda and so do white-color criminals. As long as big-brother's use of technology is win-win, I'm ok with it.
: : : : Our freedom in this country is only an illusion. Read the Patriot Act, the stuff in there is scary. The government no longer needs a reason to see what we are doing, and many honest citizens will go thru hell because the government is being nosy.
: : : Glenn Clepper mentioned the Patriot Act in a recent article posted to Local4All. I have come to respect his research over the last year and a half. I will keep an open mind about the dangers of the Patriot Act if you will consider what Glenn wrote. I don't ask you to agree with all of it - we are still allowed to have opinions.
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: : Communism died in Germany and Russia, I don't think it will come back to life. I think we should be more concerned with the administration in power right now, they are attempting to have no bills introduced into the House except ones sponsored by their party. They claim media bias- it is - for them! Bush is getting rid of anyone who is not completely loyal and controllable by him. God help our country.
: It's unlikely that the general populace in Germany or Russia knew enough about Communism to 1) see it coming or 2) do anything about it.
: I'd like to invite all of you to comment on specific points of the Patriot Act. Where do you see danger? What text should replace what's there already?
: Be as exact with wording as you can be... it helps others support your position when they can point and ask "What's wrong with that?" At such times, silence is either agreement or the sound of your opposition deflating.
: Good discussion, thanks.